Mythologies arise from the collective unconscious, depicting archetypal dynamics in narrative and symbolic form1. Each one is a revelation of the psyche, of its deep structures and how we weave image and prose to explore the mysteries of reality. Our favorite mythic stories can speak to activated archetypal dynamics within, to areas of development we are tasked with and to influences that are central to our character.
What is your favorite mythic story, fairytale or legend? Share in the comments along with what draws you most to that story, figure or mythic system. I’ll be offering reflections on the potential meaning and themes utilizing an archetypal and symbolic perspective.
This is an open forum and communal exchange, feel free to comment on others' posts if you’re inspired or have an insight to share.
For me it is the myths of Annwn, specifically Avalon and Arthurian related tales like the elucidation, the nine maidens, well and grail women, otherworldly connections and the sidhe. It’s like a homecoming and deep string of resonance
I'm curious if it's the land/realm/environment of the otherworld/Annwn that what you feel most drawn to, the figures who inhabit it, or the characters who find themselves stumbling into that place unexpectedly? Perhaps it is a mix of all?
The exploration beyond the veil of consciousness is such a powerful archetypal theme. I think it ties back to personalities who skirt the edges of the unconscious, who draw upon intuition, who feel into the invisible threads that surround and connect all beings.
That’s a great question! It’s partly to do with the realm, but in it’s reflection of our nature - hence why I am probably so drawn to rivers as well, as they are places of thresholds to the otherworld. I think it’s mainly the mythic figures, the nymphs, the fair folk, the godlike elves.
Threshold points, that's another great framing. And the figures you mention all feel like beings of the otherworld, yet they have the capacity to be multiple things at once, on the threshold. Nymps are beings of water but not stuck there (like a mermaid), they can travel upon the land. Similar with fairies (beings of air) or god-like elves...all feel like a balanced mixture of the embodiment of earth with the transformational realm of spirit.
Thank you Alyssa, you just nailed it. It’s the fluidity, the transitions and bridges, the “not stuck”-ness. I can write endless about nymphs (and just published my first nymph story) but am not specifically drawn to mermaids. Aha. Lightbulb moment. :)
I like myths where the main character struggles against the gods/the heavenly order. The fallen angel/freedom fighter archetype. They are usually motivated by an act of compassion or because they strive towards individuation or knowledge. Like Lucifer and Prometheus - the former wanted to take control of his life and the latter was moved by his empathy towards humanity’s suffering. Eve is also one of these characters as she was motivated by curiosity to eat the forbidden fruit. I also like the Gnostic myths, of “evil” gods and the fight against Destiny/Fate. Psychologically, I do understand why these themes and characters are so dear to me 😄
It's interesting to see your draw to these figures across multiple mythic systems. It really underscores how particular archetypal patterns become activated within us with meaning. A focus on just one of those characters may not have revealed that!
The rebelliousness of all these figures also makes me think of their ability to be explorers on the borderlands of the psyche or spirit. They not only shake up the established order and act as light/knowledge bringers, their very essence is the volitional force that makes that act even possible. I think that's a powerful psychological essence to tap into.
I’m torn between Psyche and Eros and Vasalisa the Wise - they are similar in terms of the impossible tasks she is required to do and different in that Psyche falls apart and gives up and the plants, animals and unseen forces come to her rescue. Vasalisa, however, gets through with the wise counsel of the doll that her dead mother gave her and her own awareness and good sense. She is brave and listens and she also gets help from other beings. Thanks for the question! I love reading the other responses and your astute replies!
Both tales have a similar archetypal structure (also shared with Cinderella) that explores transformations of the feminine principle, learning sacred mysteries, confronting shadow and the Great Mother, all within a set of trials. It's fascinating!
The divergence in approach of each heroine is quite interesting. Although Psyche gives up I sometimes see that as releasing the conscious will around the tasks and having faith in something deeper. In Vasilisa, her mother's doll plays that role, in Psyche, the animals, tower, etc. Both feel similar in that respect, a relinquishing that gives space to tap into intuition, ancestral wisdom, the unconscious, etc.
Outwardly, Vasilisa certainly has a stronger sense of character and bravery. Her reward is the libidinal and creative/destructive fire, which matches her story well. I find Psyche to be at a much higher disadvantage in terms of personality structure, farther to fall and more to reconcile. Perhaps that makes her transformation all the more captivating as well.
Of course, the Cinderella story too - my mother’s favorite! I hadn’t connected that. Psyche seems to take a long time to learn her lessons - the tests just don’t let up! She does seem to be in it alone, with no ancestral help. I love that Vasilisa has her doll and trusts its counsel. Thanks for this wonderful topic!
I have come across last year with The Listener, from the Seneca people and a beautiful rendition from Martin Shaw is available on YT.
It's a hero's journey but that started with a deep nurture of Yin energy and how he earn authority and power through just being in the woods with no agenda and all comes full circle in the end. It has many intricate details all through it, it's been haunting me ever since I heard it.
I haven't heard of this one, but I love the different take on the heroic journey and the connection to nature and yin energy. That isn't always depicted in some of the classic hero's tales, but I think is deeply important in showing variations in those dynamics. For example, the grail myth also has a similar starting point...immersed in the feminine/mother, more within nature, before taking off and developing via the heroic path.
You may enjoy this writeup on Persephone I did exploring some themes around her mythology such as encounters with the unconscious, initiations, rebirth and focusing on inner needs.
Your article and the questions mirrored something I feel like I’ve been in Hades world for so long that I’m no longer whiling to come to the surface anymore. I have eaten the pomegranate seeds… but at the same time I’m on a constant battle with the people around me and myself too… thank you for the article.
Glad it brought some further considerations. Eventually Persephone has to emerge, or the cycle stalls. I think we often find ourselves there when re-emergence feels uncertain, hostile, etc. It helps me to ask, “What do I need to feel ready to leave the inner space/Hades and come back out to the world?”
I never thought about this, to be honest, but I like Artemis and Athena. Liking Artemis to me is like liking the moon itself, the archetype it haves in astrology is very beautiful and I wanna incorporate this in my daily life. About Athena, I like her smartness and strategic mind.
English is not my first language, so I apologize if there's some mistake here. I love your content, btw.
Athena and Artemis are both virgin goddesses, which psychologically speaks to being one within oneself, self-contained, open to possibility, in touch with one's creative power, etc. Perhaps that is another element that draws you to these mythic figures?
Oh it has to be Sisyphus and his rock! It reminds me of the idea of "eternal recurrence" of Nietzsche. Sometimes, when I catch myself thinking about the future I ask myself " What would happen if I had to live this moment forever?" And then everything changes and you get to experience the smallest pleasures from the mundane.
This is such an interesting reframe! Chasing the future blinds us to the experience and presentness of what life offers us is in the here and now, however mundane it may be. Living the current moment forever presents its own challenges too...but also opens up to the subtle pleasures, as you say. Thanks for sharing!
I never actually thought about this but the first figure that came to mind was Dionysus. I’m going to have to unpack that. Excellent question, how revealing!
…this is such an exposing question but I’m just gonna roll with it. Dionysus represents indulgence, hedonism and debauchery to me. I don’t know why he came up immediately after I read your question, I don’t feel particularly indulgent or hedonistic at the moment, although I certainly have the capacity to be.
It’s funny because I never really thought of him negatively, but as I’m thinking about it now I find myself having to convince myself that there’s nothing inherently wrong with Dionysus or what he represents, he’s merely a symbol of exuberance, ecstasy, vitality, which are all very positive qualities. Life should be celebrated, and to retain Dionysian energy in our daily lives can only do us and the world good, and if the mind veers towards the negative when meditating on Dionysus then that’s maybe less a reflection of Dionysus and more of our state of mind? I’m prone to catastrophizing every now and then, I’m sure there are others who are the same. I guess in that sense Dionysus can be a good measure of our capacity for joy, our tolerance for the “finer things” in life, and how accepting of him is perhaps a reflection of how freely we allow ourselves to live.
I wonder if those negative feelings means that Dionysus and his accompanying representations perhaps has some elements of shadow for you presently? Is there an element of the exuberant, vital, overflowing nature that feels less integrated? Perhaps you have the ability to tap into it or indulge, but only in certain capacities?
I like your reflections on how Dionysus compensates for some of the more anxious/catastrophizing elements of the personality. Where that part constricts, Dionysus in turn expands, fills up, embodies, expresses.
In this case, the draw to Dionysus would offer some good paths towards growth and development.
Definitely. It’s clearer to me now why Dionysus was the first to pop up. I am currently in a rather suffocating environment. It’s as if of all the archetypes that could have surfaced, it was Dionysus who needed it most. Thank you for putting out such a wonderful question, and for the chance to reflect!
There’s something about the story of Prometheus that keeps me coming back. I have a sense of what it means, but two aspects in particular still leave me with questions: what is the deeper meaning of Zeus’s eagle eating the liver every day? And why is it that Prometheus is ultimately freed by switching places with Chiron? That feels significant, but I’m not clear on what it means symbolically or archetypally 🤔 I have some guesses, but I’d love to hear your thoughts!
In reflecting on these ideas, I'm feeling a kind of alchemical influence at play. The nigredo-like descent and gouging of the eagle each day, the interplay between fixed and volatile (Prometheus bound to the rock and then eventually ascending on high via Chiron), the eventual transformation of the "material". It all sort of shimmers with a mysterious alchemic aura.
Although there's nigredo suffering and rubedo transformation, the meat of the myth feels very citrinitas to me. As an intermediary stage, it slows down the opus so we don't move so quickly from white to red. What is happening each of those days as his liver is eaten, perhaps being sublimated and digested for greater insight and understanding. Is the liver in this sense the seat of emotions as ancient Greek's thought? It's chewed up and regenerated and the cyclical process continues until intervention from Heracles...
And I suppose that makes me wonder what the heroic, well-intentioned, but often misled figure's role is? Prometheus is not freed by Chiron of anyone's good will, Heracles is the mediator. A bull-ish, cursed and yet capable fool, he sometimes seems to me. A fool who can bring about a new order...
Anyways, just some initial thoughts. Does that spark anything for you? I feel we could have a whole conversation on this!!
Oh man, I love the alchemical angle—that’s a whole new dimension! I need to chew on that for a bit (no pun intended). I think the liver was seen as the seat of will and desire (these were associated with blood, and the liver was the bloodiest organ). In similar myths, like Amirani, I think it was originally the heart though, so could go either way. But also, Prometheus was associated with forethought, and livers were used for divination, so lots of angles to explore 🤔🤔
I like seeing Heracles as the fool! That makes sense, he definitely starts as the fool; I always read that he was more like the “initiate,” starting from zero but ultimately overcoming all the challenges of the human world and eventually ascending: very much the solar hero/individuating ego. Many writers considered him something like “the perfect man,” not because he was actually perfect but because no matter what, he continually leveled up until his apotheosis. I can’t remember who (maybe Alice Bailey?) makes a lot of parallels between Heracles and Christ, surprisingly.
So maybe it’s something like, “desires and emotions will torture you until the individuated person can reconnect the ego to the rest of the psyche”? I’m not fully satisfied with that, but it’s a start. And maybe that’s why Chiron has to die/get catasterized: the further separation from the animal side of the man? That feels like a stretch but it’s interesting haha.
Oh and we didn’t even touch on the fact that Prometheus holds the secret that can destroy or preserve Zeus’s order…
And yes, I would love to have a whole conversation about this! 🤩
I love the liver-divinatory angle! Clearly Prometheus must have had a sense of this punishment coming to pass, the inevitability of his role, and his capacity to be the one to endure!
What is it about the constellation of the healer-diviner psychic web that perhaps has to suffer the pain of coming to consciousness, finding right relationship with one's animal nature, walking between worlds, etc...
On another note regarding Zeus' eagle as agent of citrinitas/sublimation, I was flipping through Hillman's Alchemical Psychology looking for some references and this quote jumped out...
"As the nigredo has its inconsolable wounds that lift into the whitened suffering of aesthetic sensitivity, so the yellow brings the pain of further knowledge derived from piercing insights, critical, cruel, the eagles and arrows of seeing sharp and true, insights that arrive suddenly together with the fire and fear regarding the cowardice, jealousy, choler, and decay that taints both opus and artifex."
The pain of further knowledge delivered from the eagle's sharp and true beak..hmmm...the plot thickens...
This is so cool! So much to think about here, I wonder if we can take these lenses, and look at related myths, like Lucifer, Loki, Amirani, Eden, even Maui, and see what else jumps out to us. This would be such a cool conversation to have, if you’re up for it I’ll reach out soon! 😄😄
The lindworm fairytale comes to mind for me. I am attracted to the prince who was banished and then welcomed back despite his appearance and this angry, and also to the bride who volunteers despite his reputation and puts so much effort into their meeting.
This is a great depiction of fairytale heroine who is able to navigate the challenges with the help/meeting of an archetypal great mother figure. It's interesting how the queen doesn't meet the appropriate conditions but the young heroine does. There's some really interesting aspects of the feminine and its developments to contemplate in this one!
I have always loved the story of Icarus' fall. The feeling of freedom he experienced, the wild exhilaration, only to crash into the ocean's depths. The imagery and emotions it has evoked has haunted me most my life.
It's inspired such beautiful art as well. I've always been struck by the painting by Herbert James Draper, it captures the tragedy and the beauty.
I know the mythology is often looked at through the lens of reaching beyond our means, but I have also found it helpful to consider the ascent and descent as an important cyclical process that doesn't necessarily result in total death, but rather re-birth. I touched on this in a recent class on alchemy as there is a similar principle of flight and falling back to earth that we see in that system. I think Icarus' myth reflects that, as do dreams of flying and falling. Eventually, we are pulled back to the earthly plane, as an opportunity to ground, re-orient, structure...and then perhaps taking flight once more.
I think I find myself drawn back to some of my favorite myths of childhood, which always seemed to be about a parent’s loss of a child. Demeter & Persephone as well as Icarus & Daedalus.
I think as a child I sensed the way my mother loved the myth of Demeter, she shared custody with my father for part of the year and I think this myth felt like a reflection of our life in that way. She died about three years ago, and now I think they speak to those parent wounds in a very different way. It’s strange to have grown up so identified with one side of the myth and to feel in adulthood as if I have just traded places with my mother in these stories.
Are there any myths about grief you particularly love?
Thank you for sharing and showing how the different parts of the myth can resonate and align with us at different periods of life. I think it's why mythology can be such a rich container for contextualizing experience. We grow with the myths, they are a companion.
The fairytale of Rapunzel comes to mind. Grief, longing, and loss are played with at several points: the parents early infertility, Rapunzel's captivity and later banishment, the sorceresses desire to keep her locked away, the prince's loss and longing of Rapunzel, etc.
It's thematically complex in that sense, playing with nuances of parent/child, lovers, coming of age and more.
I'm curious if the versions of the myth where Prometheus is freed ever come to mind or feels equally resonant for you? Sometimes it's just one aspect of a mythology that holds meaning, and that is quite interesting to consider, especially with how it may tie back to your own life experiences. Perhaps Prometheus' sacrifice, his ability to endure and serve a greater purpose, is what carries meaning?
Yes you nailed it. For me, it was his sacrifice to make human's lives better that stuck for me. I learnt something new ; I didn't know that he was freed. So I need to look into that.
Of those of Greek cycle Myths alone: the question which is your favourite?
Is either too large or too small.
This said,
The idea that Zeus, after Prometheus gave us the godly power of fire, forced us from the ease of a life of picking ripe fruits from boughs, fresh fish from rivers, and living in harmony with nature.
And condemned humanity to the daily toil of tilling, harvesting and herding grazing animals on the fields.
Is a perfect metaphor among many perfect metaphors for the shift from Neolithic life to settled civilisation.
"Metaphysics is a kind of magic; it attempts to express the inexpressible, to grasp the ungraspable."
Wittgenstein: in defence of mythology as a means of understanding ourselves and the world around us.
My favourite myth is the story of Medea as told by Euripides. I have always been in awe of her power and how that is turned into such terrible acts of vengeance when she is wronged by Jason.
For me it is the myths of Annwn, specifically Avalon and Arthurian related tales like the elucidation, the nine maidens, well and grail women, otherworldly connections and the sidhe. It’s like a homecoming and deep string of resonance
I'm curious if it's the land/realm/environment of the otherworld/Annwn that what you feel most drawn to, the figures who inhabit it, or the characters who find themselves stumbling into that place unexpectedly? Perhaps it is a mix of all?
The exploration beyond the veil of consciousness is such a powerful archetypal theme. I think it ties back to personalities who skirt the edges of the unconscious, who draw upon intuition, who feel into the invisible threads that surround and connect all beings.
That’s a great question! It’s partly to do with the realm, but in it’s reflection of our nature - hence why I am probably so drawn to rivers as well, as they are places of thresholds to the otherworld. I think it’s mainly the mythic figures, the nymphs, the fair folk, the godlike elves.
Threshold points, that's another great framing. And the figures you mention all feel like beings of the otherworld, yet they have the capacity to be multiple things at once, on the threshold. Nymps are beings of water but not stuck there (like a mermaid), they can travel upon the land. Similar with fairies (beings of air) or god-like elves...all feel like a balanced mixture of the embodiment of earth with the transformational realm of spirit.
Thank you Alyssa, you just nailed it. It’s the fluidity, the transitions and bridges, the “not stuck”-ness. I can write endless about nymphs (and just published my first nymph story) but am not specifically drawn to mermaids. Aha. Lightbulb moment. :)
Fluid, mercurial, mutable, being of many realms - a wonderful mythic essence to be connected to :) You're welcome, and thanks for sharing!
I like myths where the main character struggles against the gods/the heavenly order. The fallen angel/freedom fighter archetype. They are usually motivated by an act of compassion or because they strive towards individuation or knowledge. Like Lucifer and Prometheus - the former wanted to take control of his life and the latter was moved by his empathy towards humanity’s suffering. Eve is also one of these characters as she was motivated by curiosity to eat the forbidden fruit. I also like the Gnostic myths, of “evil” gods and the fight against Destiny/Fate. Psychologically, I do understand why these themes and characters are so dear to me 😄
It's interesting to see your draw to these figures across multiple mythic systems. It really underscores how particular archetypal patterns become activated within us with meaning. A focus on just one of those characters may not have revealed that!
The rebelliousness of all these figures also makes me think of their ability to be explorers on the borderlands of the psyche or spirit. They not only shake up the established order and act as light/knowledge bringers, their very essence is the volitional force that makes that act even possible. I think that's a powerful psychological essence to tap into.
Thank you for your reply!
I’m torn between Psyche and Eros and Vasalisa the Wise - they are similar in terms of the impossible tasks she is required to do and different in that Psyche falls apart and gives up and the plants, animals and unseen forces come to her rescue. Vasalisa, however, gets through with the wise counsel of the doll that her dead mother gave her and her own awareness and good sense. She is brave and listens and she also gets help from other beings. Thanks for the question! I love reading the other responses and your astute replies!
Both tales have a similar archetypal structure (also shared with Cinderella) that explores transformations of the feminine principle, learning sacred mysteries, confronting shadow and the Great Mother, all within a set of trials. It's fascinating!
The divergence in approach of each heroine is quite interesting. Although Psyche gives up I sometimes see that as releasing the conscious will around the tasks and having faith in something deeper. In Vasilisa, her mother's doll plays that role, in Psyche, the animals, tower, etc. Both feel similar in that respect, a relinquishing that gives space to tap into intuition, ancestral wisdom, the unconscious, etc.
Outwardly, Vasilisa certainly has a stronger sense of character and bravery. Her reward is the libidinal and creative/destructive fire, which matches her story well. I find Psyche to be at a much higher disadvantage in terms of personality structure, farther to fall and more to reconcile. Perhaps that makes her transformation all the more captivating as well.
Of course, the Cinderella story too - my mother’s favorite! I hadn’t connected that. Psyche seems to take a long time to learn her lessons - the tests just don’t let up! She does seem to be in it alone, with no ancestral help. I love that Vasilisa has her doll and trusts its counsel. Thanks for this wonderful topic!
My pleasure, thanks for participating :)
I have come across last year with The Listener, from the Seneca people and a beautiful rendition from Martin Shaw is available on YT.
It's a hero's journey but that started with a deep nurture of Yin energy and how he earn authority and power through just being in the woods with no agenda and all comes full circle in the end. It has many intricate details all through it, it's been haunting me ever since I heard it.
I haven't heard of this one, but I love the different take on the heroic journey and the connection to nature and yin energy. That isn't always depicted in some of the classic hero's tales, but I think is deeply important in showing variations in those dynamics. For example, the grail myth also has a similar starting point...immersed in the feminine/mother, more within nature, before taking off and developing via the heroic path.
The first name that came was Persephone I’ll have to think about it
You may enjoy this writeup on Persephone I did exploring some themes around her mythology such as encounters with the unconscious, initiations, rebirth and focusing on inner needs.
https://www.theartemisian.com/p/tracking-persephone
Your article and the questions mirrored something I feel like I’ve been in Hades world for so long that I’m no longer whiling to come to the surface anymore. I have eaten the pomegranate seeds… but at the same time I’m on a constant battle with the people around me and myself too… thank you for the article.
Glad it brought some further considerations. Eventually Persephone has to emerge, or the cycle stalls. I think we often find ourselves there when re-emergence feels uncertain, hostile, etc. It helps me to ask, “What do I need to feel ready to leave the inner space/Hades and come back out to the world?”
Thank you
You're welcome :)
I never thought about this, to be honest, but I like Artemis and Athena. Liking Artemis to me is like liking the moon itself, the archetype it haves in astrology is very beautiful and I wanna incorporate this in my daily life. About Athena, I like her smartness and strategic mind.
English is not my first language, so I apologize if there's some mistake here. I love your content, btw.
Athena and Artemis are both virgin goddesses, which psychologically speaks to being one within oneself, self-contained, open to possibility, in touch with one's creative power, etc. Perhaps that is another element that draws you to these mythic figures?
Thanks for your comment and support!
Since you mentioned it, yes, these things are important to me too, despise I find it a very hard thing. Thank you for answering my question 💗
You're welcome :)
Oh it has to be Sisyphus and his rock! It reminds me of the idea of "eternal recurrence" of Nietzsche. Sometimes, when I catch myself thinking about the future I ask myself " What would happen if I had to live this moment forever?" And then everything changes and you get to experience the smallest pleasures from the mundane.
This is such an interesting reframe! Chasing the future blinds us to the experience and presentness of what life offers us is in the here and now, however mundane it may be. Living the current moment forever presents its own challenges too...but also opens up to the subtle pleasures, as you say. Thanks for sharing!
I never actually thought about this but the first figure that came to mind was Dionysus. I’m going to have to unpack that. Excellent question, how revealing!
What does Dionysus mean to you? Are there any parts of his story or what he represents that really calls to you?
…this is such an exposing question but I’m just gonna roll with it. Dionysus represents indulgence, hedonism and debauchery to me. I don’t know why he came up immediately after I read your question, I don’t feel particularly indulgent or hedonistic at the moment, although I certainly have the capacity to be.
It’s funny because I never really thought of him negatively, but as I’m thinking about it now I find myself having to convince myself that there’s nothing inherently wrong with Dionysus or what he represents, he’s merely a symbol of exuberance, ecstasy, vitality, which are all very positive qualities. Life should be celebrated, and to retain Dionysian energy in our daily lives can only do us and the world good, and if the mind veers towards the negative when meditating on Dionysus then that’s maybe less a reflection of Dionysus and more of our state of mind? I’m prone to catastrophizing every now and then, I’m sure there are others who are the same. I guess in that sense Dionysus can be a good measure of our capacity for joy, our tolerance for the “finer things” in life, and how accepting of him is perhaps a reflection of how freely we allow ourselves to live.
I wonder if those negative feelings means that Dionysus and his accompanying representations perhaps has some elements of shadow for you presently? Is there an element of the exuberant, vital, overflowing nature that feels less integrated? Perhaps you have the ability to tap into it or indulge, but only in certain capacities?
I like your reflections on how Dionysus compensates for some of the more anxious/catastrophizing elements of the personality. Where that part constricts, Dionysus in turn expands, fills up, embodies, expresses.
In this case, the draw to Dionysus would offer some good paths towards growth and development.
Definitely. It’s clearer to me now why Dionysus was the first to pop up. I am currently in a rather suffocating environment. It’s as if of all the archetypes that could have surfaced, it was Dionysus who needed it most. Thank you for putting out such a wonderful question, and for the chance to reflect!
There’s something about the story of Prometheus that keeps me coming back. I have a sense of what it means, but two aspects in particular still leave me with questions: what is the deeper meaning of Zeus’s eagle eating the liver every day? And why is it that Prometheus is ultimately freed by switching places with Chiron? That feels significant, but I’m not clear on what it means symbolically or archetypally 🤔 I have some guesses, but I’d love to hear your thoughts!
In reflecting on these ideas, I'm feeling a kind of alchemical influence at play. The nigredo-like descent and gouging of the eagle each day, the interplay between fixed and volatile (Prometheus bound to the rock and then eventually ascending on high via Chiron), the eventual transformation of the "material". It all sort of shimmers with a mysterious alchemic aura.
Although there's nigredo suffering and rubedo transformation, the meat of the myth feels very citrinitas to me. As an intermediary stage, it slows down the opus so we don't move so quickly from white to red. What is happening each of those days as his liver is eaten, perhaps being sublimated and digested for greater insight and understanding. Is the liver in this sense the seat of emotions as ancient Greek's thought? It's chewed up and regenerated and the cyclical process continues until intervention from Heracles...
And I suppose that makes me wonder what the heroic, well-intentioned, but often misled figure's role is? Prometheus is not freed by Chiron of anyone's good will, Heracles is the mediator. A bull-ish, cursed and yet capable fool, he sometimes seems to me. A fool who can bring about a new order...
Anyways, just some initial thoughts. Does that spark anything for you? I feel we could have a whole conversation on this!!
Oh man, I love the alchemical angle—that’s a whole new dimension! I need to chew on that for a bit (no pun intended). I think the liver was seen as the seat of will and desire (these were associated with blood, and the liver was the bloodiest organ). In similar myths, like Amirani, I think it was originally the heart though, so could go either way. But also, Prometheus was associated with forethought, and livers were used for divination, so lots of angles to explore 🤔🤔
I like seeing Heracles as the fool! That makes sense, he definitely starts as the fool; I always read that he was more like the “initiate,” starting from zero but ultimately overcoming all the challenges of the human world and eventually ascending: very much the solar hero/individuating ego. Many writers considered him something like “the perfect man,” not because he was actually perfect but because no matter what, he continually leveled up until his apotheosis. I can’t remember who (maybe Alice Bailey?) makes a lot of parallels between Heracles and Christ, surprisingly.
So maybe it’s something like, “desires and emotions will torture you until the individuated person can reconnect the ego to the rest of the psyche”? I’m not fully satisfied with that, but it’s a start. And maybe that’s why Chiron has to die/get catasterized: the further separation from the animal side of the man? That feels like a stretch but it’s interesting haha.
Oh and we didn’t even touch on the fact that Prometheus holds the secret that can destroy or preserve Zeus’s order…
And yes, I would love to have a whole conversation about this! 🤩
I love the liver-divinatory angle! Clearly Prometheus must have had a sense of this punishment coming to pass, the inevitability of his role, and his capacity to be the one to endure!
What is it about the constellation of the healer-diviner psychic web that perhaps has to suffer the pain of coming to consciousness, finding right relationship with one's animal nature, walking between worlds, etc...
On another note regarding Zeus' eagle as agent of citrinitas/sublimation, I was flipping through Hillman's Alchemical Psychology looking for some references and this quote jumped out...
"As the nigredo has its inconsolable wounds that lift into the whitened suffering of aesthetic sensitivity, so the yellow brings the pain of further knowledge derived from piercing insights, critical, cruel, the eagles and arrows of seeing sharp and true, insights that arrive suddenly together with the fire and fear regarding the cowardice, jealousy, choler, and decay that taints both opus and artifex."
The pain of further knowledge delivered from the eagle's sharp and true beak..hmmm...the plot thickens...
This is so cool! So much to think about here, I wonder if we can take these lenses, and look at related myths, like Lucifer, Loki, Amirani, Eden, even Maui, and see what else jumps out to us. This would be such a cool conversation to have, if you’re up for it I’ll reach out soon! 😄😄
Good thinking, a comparative exploration will likely flesh out the mythic map!
Definitely interested in continuing the convo. Is the podcast still in the works?
Sure is! Got delayed because of moving, but launching September 1—super excited!
Perfect, I’ll reach out this week to schedule—I am going to have so many questions about the alchemical side haha, thank you! ⚡️
The lindworm fairytale comes to mind for me. I am attracted to the prince who was banished and then welcomed back despite his appearance and this angry, and also to the bride who volunteers despite his reputation and puts so much effort into their meeting.
This is a great depiction of fairytale heroine who is able to navigate the challenges with the help/meeting of an archetypal great mother figure. It's interesting how the queen doesn't meet the appropriate conditions but the young heroine does. There's some really interesting aspects of the feminine and its developments to contemplate in this one!
Thanks! Lots to think about.
I have always loved the story of Icarus' fall. The feeling of freedom he experienced, the wild exhilaration, only to crash into the ocean's depths. The imagery and emotions it has evoked has haunted me most my life.
It's inspired such beautiful art as well. I've always been struck by the painting by Herbert James Draper, it captures the tragedy and the beauty.
I know the mythology is often looked at through the lens of reaching beyond our means, but I have also found it helpful to consider the ascent and descent as an important cyclical process that doesn't necessarily result in total death, but rather re-birth. I touched on this in a recent class on alchemy as there is a similar principle of flight and falling back to earth that we see in that system. I think Icarus' myth reflects that, as do dreams of flying and falling. Eventually, we are pulled back to the earthly plane, as an opportunity to ground, re-orient, structure...and then perhaps taking flight once more.
Oh wow, I love this interpretation. Thank you, yes, very much the cycle of falling and flying, grounding and exploration and freedom are all at play.
I think I find myself drawn back to some of my favorite myths of childhood, which always seemed to be about a parent’s loss of a child. Demeter & Persephone as well as Icarus & Daedalus.
I think as a child I sensed the way my mother loved the myth of Demeter, she shared custody with my father for part of the year and I think this myth felt like a reflection of our life in that way. She died about three years ago, and now I think they speak to those parent wounds in a very different way. It’s strange to have grown up so identified with one side of the myth and to feel in adulthood as if I have just traded places with my mother in these stories.
Are there any myths about grief you particularly love?
Thank you for sharing and showing how the different parts of the myth can resonate and align with us at different periods of life. I think it's why mythology can be such a rich container for contextualizing experience. We grow with the myths, they are a companion.
The fairytale of Rapunzel comes to mind. Grief, longing, and loss are played with at several points: the parents early infertility, Rapunzel's captivity and later banishment, the sorceresses desire to keep her locked away, the prince's loss and longing of Rapunzel, etc.
It's thematically complex in that sense, playing with nuances of parent/child, lovers, coming of age and more.
For me it's always been Prometheus and his ultimate sacrifice and the suffering he had to endure the punishment Zeus put on him.
I'm curious if the versions of the myth where Prometheus is freed ever come to mind or feels equally resonant for you? Sometimes it's just one aspect of a mythology that holds meaning, and that is quite interesting to consider, especially with how it may tie back to your own life experiences. Perhaps Prometheus' sacrifice, his ability to endure and serve a greater purpose, is what carries meaning?
Yes you nailed it. For me, it was his sacrifice to make human's lives better that stuck for me. I learnt something new ; I didn't know that he was freed. So I need to look into that.
Of those of Greek cycle Myths alone: the question which is your favourite?
Is either too large or too small.
This said,
The idea that Zeus, after Prometheus gave us the godly power of fire, forced us from the ease of a life of picking ripe fruits from boughs, fresh fish from rivers, and living in harmony with nature.
And condemned humanity to the daily toil of tilling, harvesting and herding grazing animals on the fields.
Is a perfect metaphor among many perfect metaphors for the shift from Neolithic life to settled civilisation.
"Metaphysics is a kind of magic; it attempts to express the inexpressible, to grasp the ungraspable."
Wittgenstein: in defence of mythology as a means of understanding ourselves and the world around us.
My favourite myth is the story of Medea as told by Euripides. I have always been in awe of her power and how that is turned into such terrible acts of vengeance when she is wronged by Jason.